How, exactly, did Yaakov kiss Rachel? This article explores the full spectrum of interpretations—from Ibn Kaspi to the Hasidic masters—through the lenses of methodology and sociology.
>>His commentary often includes what we might describe as “hot takes,” delivered in a tone that could be called “snarky.” :D
>> “As God lives, [I swear that] I am not troubled by this verse.”
great lines
Though honestly I am surprised by the take "Dovid did worse things sexually and was moshiach Hashem anyway." 1) Dovid did teshuva very publicly or he undoubtedly would *not* have been moshiach Hashem. 2) It would seem like our current idea of "kedusha" is...too strict according to Ibn Kaspi? Like sure, all things being equal a person would control themselves sexually. But "don't get all bent out of shape" if our patriarchs had a kiss or a cuddle before marriage. Is that the standard to which we are holding the Patriarchs? I would say for the klal, ok. But I kind of had higher standards for Yaakov Avinu. Then again, before Matan Torah, Yehuda went to a prostitute after his wife died. That is not criticized but the midrash does say a malach pushed him (ie all things being equal, a role model like that is held to a higher standard, at least according to that midrash).
I really like your point that there is a range of approaches. And your comments about the interplay between culture, values, and interpretation here.
This makes me wish I did put a chapter on this in my book! But I think you did a better job than I would have. Great reading!
I appreciate this forthright approach. However, Melech David was reproached by Natan HaNavi for his sin. There is no indication in the text regarding Yaakov kissing Rachel that this was wrong, hidden or unconventional. Perhaps, this suggests it was not a sexual kiss, but rather one of greeting a relative. Just as we see Lavan and Eisav kiss Yaakov upon greeting eachother.
I'm with you up until "Perhaps, this SUGGESTS it was not a sexual kiss, but rather one of greeting a relative." I see how it leaves open the possibility that this may or may not be a sexual kiss, but I don't see how the absence of any words of disapproval suggests that it was a chaste kiss. Ibn Kaspi would say, "Maybe the Torah doesn't express disapproval because there was nothing to disapprove of in a romantic kiss!"
Right, I hear. At the same time, no one would think Yaakov kiss with Lavan or Eisav was sexual in nature. I feel like we must compare these kisses. It also makes me ponder about the concept of kissing in Tanach. It would be interesting to explore.
I agree with you. The immediate and general context is of one relative greeting another. Rachel's good looks are only introduced later, to explain why he preferred her over Leah.
Glad to see you address this issue forthrightly. A truly snarky explanation might be that this incident happened before Mattan Torah. If Yaakov could marry two sisters, which is usually excused on these grounds, then surely he could get away with kissing Rachel in whatever manner he did.
Yes, that indeed would be snarky. I think there's a difference between imputing impulsive and lustful behavior to Yaakov versus his marrying his intended bride (that he was defrauded out of) notwithstanding that Leah would potentially feel less loved (and the post sinaitic proscription). It is actually a testament to Yaakov's middos that Leah was never the wiser to the original plan (al pi peshat).
I noticed that as well when using control-F to find the place on the page. I THINK I read every commentary on וישק יעקב לרחל available on AlHaTorah and Sefaria, and I didn't see a single person mention that as a possibility. Apparently, "va'yishak" and "va'yashk" mean different things. Nice play on words, though! Perhaps there's something there.
>>His commentary often includes what we might describe as “hot takes,” delivered in a tone that could be called “snarky.” :D
>> “As God lives, [I swear that] I am not troubled by this verse.”
great lines
Though honestly I am surprised by the take "Dovid did worse things sexually and was moshiach Hashem anyway." 1) Dovid did teshuva very publicly or he undoubtedly would *not* have been moshiach Hashem. 2) It would seem like our current idea of "kedusha" is...too strict according to Ibn Kaspi? Like sure, all things being equal a person would control themselves sexually. But "don't get all bent out of shape" if our patriarchs had a kiss or a cuddle before marriage. Is that the standard to which we are holding the Patriarchs? I would say for the klal, ok. But I kind of had higher standards for Yaakov Avinu. Then again, before Matan Torah, Yehuda went to a prostitute after his wife died. That is not criticized but the midrash does say a malach pushed him (ie all things being equal, a role model like that is held to a higher standard, at least according to that midrash).
I really like your point that there is a range of approaches. And your comments about the interplay between culture, values, and interpretation here.
This makes me wish I did put a chapter on this in my book! But I think you did a better job than I would have. Great reading!
I appreciate this forthright approach. However, Melech David was reproached by Natan HaNavi for his sin. There is no indication in the text regarding Yaakov kissing Rachel that this was wrong, hidden or unconventional. Perhaps, this suggests it was not a sexual kiss, but rather one of greeting a relative. Just as we see Lavan and Eisav kiss Yaakov upon greeting eachother.
I'm with you up until "Perhaps, this SUGGESTS it was not a sexual kiss, but rather one of greeting a relative." I see how it leaves open the possibility that this may or may not be a sexual kiss, but I don't see how the absence of any words of disapproval suggests that it was a chaste kiss. Ibn Kaspi would say, "Maybe the Torah doesn't express disapproval because there was nothing to disapprove of in a romantic kiss!"
Right, I hear. At the same time, no one would think Yaakov kiss with Lavan or Eisav was sexual in nature. I feel like we must compare these kisses. It also makes me ponder about the concept of kissing in Tanach. It would be interesting to explore.
I bet if someone wrote a book on this, it would be quite a hit!
As is evident by the abundance of comments 😀
I agree with you. The immediate and general context is of one relative greeting another. Rachel's good looks are only introduced later, to explain why he preferred her over Leah.
Glad to see you address this issue forthrightly. A truly snarky explanation might be that this incident happened before Mattan Torah. If Yaakov could marry two sisters, which is usually excused on these grounds, then surely he could get away with kissing Rachel in whatever manner he did.
Yes, that indeed would be snarky. I think there's a difference between imputing impulsive and lustful behavior to Yaakov versus his marrying his intended bride (that he was defrauded out of) notwithstanding that Leah would potentially feel less loved (and the post sinaitic proscription). It is actually a testament to Yaakov's middos that Leah was never the wiser to the original plan (al pi peshat).
Cf. with his other comment, a mere few verses later: ר' יוסף אבן כספי בראשית כ"ט:י"ז
"ואולם מה שהוא תמה גדול בחקינו ובחוק כל חסיד איך יעקב אבינו היה בוחר בחורות יפות."
Generally speaking, the older I get, the crankier I get with less than literal/anachronistic explanations.
Thanks and Shabbat Shalom
I wrote about that particular comment a few years ago. Should've referenced in here too: https://rabbischneeweiss.substack.com/p/vayeitzei-the-eyes-of-leah-in-the
Shabbat shalom, and thanks for reading!
Alternatively, the surrounding text uses the same shoresh to mean watered. Could it mean that Yaakov provided water to Rachel.
I noticed that as well when using control-F to find the place on the page. I THINK I read every commentary on וישק יעקב לרחל available on AlHaTorah and Sefaria, and I didn't see a single person mention that as a possibility. Apparently, "va'yishak" and "va'yashk" mean different things. Nice play on words, though! Perhaps there's something there.
Robert Alter cites Nahum Sarna as picking up on the word play; says that the same thing appears in Shir HaShirim.